BRICS is evolving with new members; differences will take time to resolve: Brazil FM Mauro Vieira

How broad and wide are the differences between BRICS members, and is it possible to bridge them now?

I think that the diversity of positions is a positive aspect of BRICS, because it’s a platform for consultation and political articulation, and what we are seeing now is the evolution of BRICS. We had at the beginning five countries, and now, two years after the expansion, we are still adapting to new methods of work and new kinds of interactions for developing countries. Sometimes even in larger groupings, you have difficulty in reaching consensus on all issues. But I think that on the large majority of issues we have all the same position. And I believe that those in which we don’t have now, we may have them later this year, when the summit will happen here in India (September 10-11), under the presidency of Prime Minister Modi. I am very confident.

Even so, would you say Iran-UAE differences have brought BRICS consensus to a standstill?

That is the main issue. But it also proves the importance of this group in that where you have two countries that have totally different positions, and they are in opposition, one to the other, and in a state of war, of military action, one against the other. But I think that this is also the richness of this grouping, because you have this place and the space to negotiate and to talk.

And that BRICS is also important to have a dialogue with other countries and other groupings. So I am very confident that will reach a common position and that this platform of negotiation will generate the consensus that’s necessary.

External Affairs Minister Jaishankar said the new BRICS members (Iran, UAE, Egypt, Ethiopia, Indonesia) need to understand and follow the consensus of the old BRICS members (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa). Do you think looking in hindsight, the process of BRICS expansion was pushed through too quickly or reconsidered?

It took some time to reach the point of expansion. We had the original five members for 17 before the expansion was decided two years ago in South Africa, and all five countries agreed on the new members. What we all debated and we all set the basis for this expansion, and one of the important issues was exactly that we should share the same positions in international affairs, such as the reform of Security Council, which was a consensus, and it has to continue to be a consensus the new members should adopt. I believe this is the quoting that you referred to by Foreign Minister Jaishankar. I think refers to this that the countries the new members share the same values and the same positions of the original five.

During the Rio BRICS summit in Rio, there were some very strong paragraphs about the conflict in Gaza and on Israel Palestine issues. Are you hopeful of similar language this time?

Yes, well, we hope that we can work from here to September, with all the BRICS and arrive at a text that all agree with, I hope so. And this is the characteristic of democratic and diplomatic movements and organisations, we have to negotiate and arrive at a common text. For Brazil, we have criticised enormously the attacks of Israel against civilian populations in Gaza. It led to the death of thousands including Brazilians, Brazilian citizens even young children. Others have been imprisoned and one starved to death. So we cannot stay silent. We have to criticise. But of course, each country has a different take in this, in this question and the different position, and some are more affected, as we are.

Consensus was also difficult when Brazil hosted the G-20 in 2024, and the BRICS in 2025. Do you think the new conflicts and actions by world powers, including the U.S. in Venezuela and U.S. and Israel in Iran, and earlier Russia in Ukraine are making it more difficult to forge joint statements?

Well, this is destabilising the whole world. You just have to see the inflation and the cost of oil that’s rising globally. We live in a globalised world. In the past, conflicts remained regional, but now everything is globalised, and I think there’s a huge impact. That’s why Brazil is in favour of diplomacy, of negotiation and conversation among countries. And we will always try to promote negotiations between countries to finish all these conflicts.

Since the beginning of U.S. President Donald Trump’s second tenure, he has issued statements against BRICS and threatened BRICS members with 100% sanctions. Why do you think BRICS is targeted and seen as anti-West?

Well, I don’t know if it’s seen this way. The only thing I can say that BRICS is not against the United States or the West or anyone, and the proof is that we have countries from different parts and continents in the world. BRICS is a grouping of developing countries trying to develop common policies to promote the development of these countries, to have more trade and to combat many different difficulties in these countries.

For instance, during our presidency, we launched initiative in medicine to combat diseases related to poverty and the Global Alliance Against Hunger and Poverty. BRICS, I think it’s very successful grouping. It’s a very important one. If you see the membership in G-20 and so many other groupings, you’ll always find BRICS members there, even at G-7, hosted by France this year, India and Brazil are invited.

President Lula once spoke about the idea of de-dollarisation and alternative payment mechanisms. Does this conflict that we are seeing bring about a greater need for something like that?

That was a misunderstanding. President Lula never spoke of de-dollarisation or creation of a BRICS currency. He only spoke about mechanisms of payments in local currencies, which exists between many countries. They have the option to use local currencies or to go through the big payment systems in Europe and the United States. But nothing is against anyone. It’s in favour of the members and in favour of development and social policies and initiatives in the area of medicine and so on.

What is the progress on the Brazil-India led Biofuel alliance? In the present crisis, the world is still focussed on fossil fuels not alternate energy sources.

Well, fossil fuels and the oil industry are very big, very well settled. And ethanol and bio-fuels are much newer for the world. Fifty years ago, Brazil had no oil at all and we started developing ethanol to fuel our cars and our trucks, and this gave us a lot of experience. Today, it’s very normal and very common. You go to a gas station, and you can put gasoline in your car or you can put ethanol. They are dual flex, and you can use one or the other. So it’s something that’s part of our culture already, and we are partnering with so many countries, and especially with India. India has all the infrastructure required for it and the experience. And I believe that this cooperation will be very positive, will produce very important results. The new frontier, is for Sustainable Aviation Fuel (SAF), and maritime fuel too, for ships. So, I believe there is a very clear vision that something is needed to balance the old environmental policies in the world. All countries together have to unite their forces to fight against climate change. And one of the best available tools, that has been used in Brazil, is sustainable fuel.